What should we expect from Apple in 2023 ? Well , based on late report , it ’s going to be all about Apple ’s speculation in AR , VR , a headset , and an operating system to make it all influence . The future tense is approximate , and we talk about it on this episode of the Macworld Podcast !
This is episode 823 withJason Cross , Michael Simon , andRoman Loyola .
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Transcript for episode 823: 2023 is the year of Apple Reality
RL : What should we expect from Apple in 2023 ? Well , ground on late reports , it ’s gon na be all about Apple ’s venture in AR , VR , a headset , and an operating arrangement to make it all work . The future is near and we ’re talking about it all on this installment of the Macworld Podcast .
receive to the Macworld Podcast . I ’m Roman Loyola [ RL ] here with Jason Cross [ JC ] .
JC : Good morning .
RL : And Michael Simon [ MS ] .
MS : Hello , sir . I ’m glad we ’re back to our usual introduction .
RL : really , I have the fresh intro write here and I become into muscle innate reflex and started reciting the old presentation .
MS : So — I’m all for it .
RL : That ’s why if you listen to the intro , I , like , stuttered a little snatch because I went … I’m in reality not register what I … what I write . JC : I ’ve been there .
RL : We ’ve had a couple of reputation latterly about Apple ’s interracial realism headset . On Monday , Bloomberg ’s Mark Gurman reported that Apple has allocated a ton of resources towards the headset in ordering to make it bechance this year . And last week , the site The Information detailed several technical details about the headset . So it looks like it ’s go to happen this twelvemonth . Are you guys excite about our newfangled AR / VR reality that ’s coming up ?
JC : I kind of am .
MS : I do n’t know if excited is the good word . All justly , I ’ll lease Jason be positively charged first .
JC : I kind of am in the sense that I think it ’s going to be a pace change improvement over your Oculus Quests and stuff like that , especially as it relate to AR . The specs are kind of crazy . I ca n’t imagine how expensive it ’s rifle to be . We ’ve hear rumors of $ 3,000 , but then again , everyone opine the iPad was going to cost $ 1,000 , and then it came out at $ 500 . Not that $ 1,500 would be cheap – that would be real expensive . That would be more than the new exchange premium headset from Meta and everybody .
I cerebrate they ’re doing some unique and interesting things . I call back we might be in the same spot we were before the iPhone was free when the savant were looking at existing smartphones and saying , what could possibly be add together ? What is Apple going to convey to the table ? How could it be good ? I think there ’s a hatful of serviceableness stuff , a lot of figure stuff and nonsense , a lot of – and Apple has the scale leaf , now that they ’ve never had before . So much of what is set AR and VR in the world decent now is just this limiting factor of all the developers in the world are n’t going to jumpstart on plank , because they ca n’t reach several hundred million customers . So the only investment you get is companies like Meta building their own thing and spending all the money in the world , and attempt to pay developers to make games and stuff , giving them sweet deals and stuff . But they ’re not endue really firmly . Or guy cable like Sony who are doing the same affair . They ’re trying to push a weapons platform , they ’re go to do VR , they ’re going to spend a whole portion of money on a fistful of games .
But you ’re not going to get the same berth you get with the iPhone where you just get everything from hobbyist developer who come up with something really great that changes everything for everybody , to really large mega potbelly spending billions of dollars , and everything in - between because the scale ’s not there . Nobody ’s got a affair that reaches 50 million people or 100 million or iPhones now attain a billion . Apple on the strength of mark alone can kind of get there . It might take a genesis or two . Prices have to come down and all this other stuff . But I think I ’m guardedly affirmative .
RL : Part of me want to think , well , how can it be any better than a Meta headset or something like that ?
JC : Right .
RL : But you have to step back and think this might be something totally different , that we ’re just not able-bodied to conceptualise of , I guess . Or do n’t have the ability to conceive of it , I guess .
MS : That ’s kind of where my pessimism comes in , I consider , because – all right , so we were talking about iPhone . When the iPhone came out , I imply , everyone knew what a nomadic telephone was . And a lot of people had them and there were varying degrees of usability and had , you know , dissimilar feature and whatever else . But Apple kind of set the criterion there and said , okay , so this is the phone that we should be using . Same thing with the Apple Watch , same thing with maybe a MacBook or something like that . They take something that we ’re familiar with and they make it better .
This headset that we ’ve been hearing about for a long time , based on the rumour , base on what we know , it is not at all like anything that we ’ve seen . And Apple has – so there ’s two hurdles here . One is manifestly the price and trade it and make it something that people want . But it ’s also convincing people that this is something that they ’re conk to need to assume all the fourth dimension . It ’s not like a Meta Quest where you bulge in on , oh , look , I got this new secret plan or I want to be Iron Man for a mates of transactions or it ’s a baseball game thing or whatever it is . This is , based on what we read , this is like it ’s a wearable equipment like AirPods or an Apple Watch that ’s stand for to be used in public and that ’s the disconnect .
JC : Yeah . I think from what the leak glasses that we have get a line so far are , I do n’t think this first merchandise is meant to be that . Number one , it does n’t have the battery life . Number two , they ’re doing AR not in deoxyephedrine . It ’s a headset . It ’s a pair of ski goggles you wear that has stuff and nonsense like that . I intend ab initio it ’s going to be mean for you to use it in hr - prospicient , consecrate hr - long bursts of doing something specific with it and then take it off . This is the stepping stone to succeeding products that are , like you aver , like I wear it around town all Clarence Day and stuff like that .
The rumor is they ’re focusing a lot on sort of telecom with it , which is a well exemplar . You ’d put it on to have a virtual FaceTime call where you ’re not looking at a video cover , you ’re looking at fundamentally a holograph of the other someone standing in your livelihood room and you ’re standing in theirs , right ? And they ’re doing what you ’re doing , and it calculate like you , and it moves like you .
MS : presumptively , they would want a headset as well for that to work .
JC : Yes .
MS : Yeah .
JC : They might even make it cultivate with FaceTime where it ’s like , if they had a sound , they would see your avatar moving , but it ’s just on a blind , and you would just see a telecasting of them with your headset on . They could do thing , but the substantial experience would be AR to AR .
But maybe we should – because we ca n’t assume everybody ’s up on it – peradventure we should quickly run down some of these specs . It ’s expected to expect kind of like a duad of ski goggles .
one thousand : Ski goggles . That ’s the matter that everyone keeps saying . There ’s a couple of render out there that search like big ski goggles .
JC : So think of it like a MetaQuest 2 but maybe a little thin , right ? Or the MetaQuest Pro but maybe a minuscule thinner . It should be , they say , between 300 - 400 grams , so a good third lighter than those things , specially more than that for the MetaQuest Pro because it has that big shelling in the back but made out of hooey like aluminum and titanium and mesh knit and clobber to keep the weight down .
MS : Yeah , it ’s kind of like AirPod Max - ish base on what we read . It face similar to that type of combination of materials .
JC : Although it should be name : I think this is lighter than AirPod Max . And things like talker integrated into the framework , which the MetaQuest Pro does for the ears . Then if you require to utilize headphones – and that ’s required to make 3D sound work as you reverse your headspring speedily . It ’s not like playing a video with surround sound where if you ’re 100 milliseconds off , it works . It has to be ace , ace low latent period to act .
MS : It should be mention if that ’s true , the only AirPods manakin right now is the AirPods Pro 2 . That ’s it . The AirPods 3 have an H1 .
JC : For inwardly , they would have the Sony - made micro OLED 4 atomic number 19 video display on each centre . You will see reports say , “ for a total of an 8 super acid display”–that is not how 8 super acid works . 8 K is four 4 KiB displays . It ’s too wide and too tall . Half an 8 K showing , people – shame on you . But still , that is much higher closure and probably good colouration reproduction and dynamical image and stuff than most headset display out there .
And then this is totally unique : on the exterior , they ’ll have a magnanimous outbound - facing OLED exhibit that work like the Apple Watch or the always - on display of the iPhone or something where really , really lowly refresh rate , really , really low force use that ’s just mean to every second or so , it ’s think to show what your boldness is looking like to the outside world so that when other people are talk to you while you ’re wearing this stunned headset , they do n’t feel totally split from you .
MS : They ’ll see your centre wink and moving and locution .
JC : Or even a theatrical of them , if not an existent video provender of your eyes , but something , and then it wo n’t be uncanny . You ’re not see at somebody who ’s like , are you look at me ? I ca n’t tell . Did you get a line me ? That to me , that ’s the small thing , but that to me is one of those things that convinces me that Apple has done work on how to make this thing usable , that I think other hoi polloi have n’t because that ’s a very real issue that ’s very human and not proficient . It has a very expert and expensive solution , but that ’s one of those things that ’s like , they thought about , people doing this , and that ’s coolheaded .
Then on the interior , they ’ll have several detector inside to look at things like your eyes and do middle trailing . They can do thing like foveated rendering , which is fundamentally they draw the part of the screen you ’re looking at very elaborated and the eternal rest of it not very elaborate because your peripheral imagination has terrible resolution . Just makes things run faster and look , it lets you render high-pitched resolving power without the penalty .
And then also do thing like have your avatar , or the front screen and stuff show where your eye are count and blinking and facial face for what you – there ’s some coolheaded AI out there that will expect at thing like the areas around your optic to determine are you smiling , frowning , material like that . And then on the exterior , they say 12 – you’ve seen 12 tv camera , you ’ve seen 12 cameras and sensors and stuff like that . I do n’t cerebrate there ’s going to be 12 cameras . I think they ’re count other sensor as well . Multiple television camera on the exterior .
And then both little - distance and long - distance LiDAR to do mapping of your environment , which you postulate to do for actual AR . And then , of form , things like accelerometers and all that other nonsensicality . And then indoors , an M1 and a second chip that is a dedicated custom image signal processor with a custom super humble latency connection to the M1 , because one of the problem they all ask to do to do AR well is take the video provender from all those cameras , run up it together by rights into a stereoscopic picture flow , and then send that through to the CPU and ultimately to the displays in fabulously low latency , like super , super gloomy . You ca n’t have any lag or you ’ll start to find grisly . The shape rate needs to be really , really , really high , 90Hz or something like that .
That ’s a lot . But it also mean they ’re doing AR other than than the Magic Leap or the HoloLens . Those are thing where they had , you search through a clear lens at the world , atthe real humanity , and that exculpated lens of the eye has an integrated display , lucid incorporate display , and that ’s what they draw over the real world with . This is locomote to be like a VR headset , it ’s opaque , and when you are doing AR to see the real world , you ’re decease to see a real - fourth dimension stereoscopic video feed of the actual world around you . And that has to be much higher calibre . There ’s some headset that do that now , like the unexampled Oculus and stuff . It ’s a bad experience . It ’s essentially just there so that you’re able to check your environment , verify you ’re not hitting anything . When you go to VR musical mode , the Apple ’s going to have to be a whole order of magnitude well than everybody else at that for this to be really augment reality .
It will get its battery from a stamp battery pack you ’d wear on your shank or pocket or something with a cord attached with like MagSafe . believably a smart idea just considering how much big businessman this affair need to use . If you were to put the electric battery on the headset , it ’d be punishing and shorter battery life and all that clobber . They ’re going to have to get beyond that eventually for this , probably voguish .
And then a digital crown - type thing on the side of the headset that lets you switch between AR and VR . 120 - arcdegree field of sentiment , that ’s right smart better than any of the consecrate augment reality products like the HoloLens – that thing has a awful arena of view – and Magic Leap . That ’s as good as the best VR headsets for VR .
And for controller , not dedicated controllers like you see , they ’re going with hand trailing . So you ’ll go much like HoloLens , you ’ll be doing gesture in the air to do OS - level commands and stuff , and just grabbing practical physical object with your mitt and stuff . But they apparently have enough cameras and enough intelligence to do thing like body tracking the rest of your body , even leg tracking , which is a pretty advanced thing . Nobody else is really doing that . They ’re doing some branch simulation just ground on if your body moves through the environment like this , your legs will just fake how your legs would move , which is not the same as pass over your actual wooden leg bowel movement .
MS : Facebook does n’t even have pegleg .
JC : Yeah , in their incarnation . There are games that do .
RL : premature written report had say that this headset relies on an iPhone for processing and other affair . Now , did The Information note that ?
MS : We also heard that it would have an M C.P.U. . That ’s an other hearsay , so maybe both . I think it almost certainly has to have an iPhone involved in some agency , at least at the commencement .
JC It will credibly have to be set up with an iPhone , kind of , like the way you would set up an Apple tv set or a HomePod . The latest rumors say that it ’s going to have its own integrated processing . Whether that ’s in the belt battalion matter or in the headset itself or something , I do n’t know , but it would have its own M1 and tradition ISP . They ca n’t really work the job of the latency problem of commit bare-assed data to your iPhone to be processed and then back to the headset and then what it needs to place to the displays all in like three millisecond .
In AR and VR , they have what ’s call up motion - to - photon latency . That ’s fundamentally , how much fourth dimension does it take from the input of your foreland turning or moving through the environment , the accelerometers to find that , give that motion , redraw the blind properly for the novel direction it ’s supposed to be facing or something , then post it back to the display and the exhibit to make photons that hit your eyeballs . All that has to happen in a very , very short amount of time , or no matter how high the frame of reference pace is , you feel sick of . It could be 120 bod per minute , whatever , but if there ’s a hold , even a tiny fraction of a 2nd delay , if you find disconnected from it , you begin to get gruesome . Things do n’t feel grounded . It does n’t work . To get that gumption of presence , you have to have really depleted gesture of photon latent period . My guess is that they ’re going to have to have local processing with an real cable connect , whether it ’s in the headset or it ’s in the belt pack to keep that down really low .
MS : All of that , which is , that ’s a deal . No one ’s gon na manage . even citizenry are n’t gon na give a bullshit about any of that hooey . What they ’re going to give care about is they put it on and it work out .
JC : It ’s got to be magic . You have to have that wow moment where you put it on and you go , wow . And then further … the thing that the iPhone got right was not just that . The spectacles did n’t really leak out about the iPhone ahead of time .
MS : No , really not . There was n’t much about the iPhone at all . It was kind of a surprise that it even come at that event .
JC : There were rumors they were working on it .
MS : But it was n’t like this , where if Apple has a spring event and they say something , I do n’t cognize , some clever catchphrase , we ’re going to know what ’s the AR headset . We did not know that Macworld 07 was going to be the iPhone introduction , not for sure .
JC : Yeah . Same thing with the Apple Watch . We knew they were working on a watch . We did n’t know what or when necessarily .
MS : Yeah . It was moderately quiet eyeglasses and rumors and leakage and clobber .
JC : Apple ’s so big now , they ca n’t keep things that secret . If the same entropy was out about the iPhone before it was introduced , if we had this spirit level of specs , you would be like , it sounds like a really badly underpowered impertinent – like , it sounds like my roving PDA , but less herculean . You would not understand that the magic is in , what does it see like ? How is it design ? What does it feel like to utilize ? What are the apps like ? The whole matter was in the serviceability of it . There were some killer apps . There were some thing we had had before that they just did completely better and differently on the iPhone . They whole –
MS : Yeah . I think of , Maps was the full-grown one .
JC : Maps was a Brobdingnagian one . It was awesome .
MS : Even just the WWW browser app was like , wow , it ’s like a existent web web browser app in my hand .
JC : And the third was the phone . We do n’t recollect about it now , but –
MS : Visual voicemail and things like that .
JC : Yeah . Absolutely .
MiB : Tapping links to make calls in Google .
JC : Completely plot - change . That ’s what they ’re function to have to do and that ’s what we do n’t jazz about . We be intimate that the rumors are that they ’re focalize a lot on what people have pronounce , like a new age Zoom using Animojis and VR FaceTime and hooey like that to have like practical communication theory .
MS : I do n’t think Animojis , I mean , Animojis would be okay . I cerebrate it require to be like , I need to put this thing on , make a call and I ’m calculate at , like , the individual .
JC : Well , no , they ’re expected to have topnotch high - calibre incarnation of you . Maybe it ’s not an actual video of you , maybe it ’s a mental representation , but like these really high - quality incarnation of you .
MS : But not like a talk unicorn or something .
JC : Yeah , that would be just like in FaceTime , you could do that .
MS : Yes .
JC : Yeah , I reckon that ’s the idea .
MS : Which is fun , but it ’s not whatever . It ’s not a biz - modifier .
JC : But that ’s precisely the kind of thing where we do n’t know what that ’s really going to be like . Just like if somebody before the iPhone told us , it ’s going to have really gravid maps , you ’d be like , well , so what ? And then it comes out , and you ’re like , oh , no , no , this is really amazing . This is really great maps and I need this . So it ’s gon na have to have that form of thing where there are , whether it ’s productiveness apps or communication or whatever , that if you just hear , well , they ’re make this really groovy communications app , you ’re gon na go , uh , and then when you see it and you employ it , you ’re gon na have to go , I need this in my living . And they have to reach that spirit level on something . I do n’t know if they can .
It should be remark the modish matter does say that it will run iPhone apps in a practical window . So that ’s cool . That ’s a big deal and maybe that ’s part of how it works with your iPhone . It runs your iPhone in a virtual window .
MS : I mean , mouth of the iPhone , the up-to-the-minute report says that Apple is kind of sprinting to the goal seam here . So they ’re lead resources from iOS 17 , iPadOS 17 , macOS 14 , those teams contribute it over to the AR , which is bruit to be called xrOS , which remain firm for Extended realness . Mark Gurman report that , those operating arrangement , iOS 17 , macOS 14 , might not be as feature - sate as they would be , because this is an all - out effort to make this the product .
JC : I feel just like the Apple Watch where it take them a class or two to feed - right and figure out , and it might take the same sort of matter after there ’ll be a development kit , there ’ll be an app store , developer will make stuff . They ’ll figure out what ’s really popular , what people really sleep with , what they do with it a lot , and they ’ll either change the feature or get disembarrass of the thing that people do n’t care so much about and really focus on the affair that they do . But this is like a whole other column for Apple .
MS : And the Apple Watch was 350 bucks .
JC : you may get a $ 10,000 one if you need to .
MS : Yeah , you could get a $ 10,000 one if you want to do it . This thing might start at $ 10,000 base on everything that you just delineate . I intend , who knows ?
JC : They ’re almost worrisome because it ’s too far beyond what everybody else has to the point where it ’s like , is Apple going to be willing to make a downhearted net income allowance than theynormally make so as to make this a pop weapons platform ? I do n’t know . Or is it just going to be extremely expensive and they ’ll deal a million of them and then in yr three , when they come out with a second variation , it ’s direction more affordable ?
RL Well , my concern is then , is that Apple puts it out , and then they assay to go back to business as usual where team work on their various projects as before . And then there ’s more or less a sense of negligence with the platform .
JC : Oh , you mean it gets Siri’d ?
RL : It gets Siri’d , it gets HomePod’d , or whatever you want to call it . Yeah . That ’s what I get disturbed about . I ’m a petty worried about that too .
JC : Yeah . I do n’t recall either of those were considered within the ship’s company to be like the next major pillar the means that this is , but it could very well be like the iPad or something . It gets update every year . Once they kind of get it to where it want to be , it come updates and … the iPad kind of languished for a while . We were stick with that , what is now the ninth gen iPad . We were stuck with that design for too long . Then again , on the other hand , there are , I do n’t eff what the install base of iPads is , but it ’s a lot and it ’s the only game in Ithiel Town essentially for tablet . There are other tablet out there , but they ’re not iPad .
MS : I mean , you cognise , at the sentence , there was nothing like the iPad , not even close . The iPad is kind of a dupe of its own winner . It sold so well because everyone was expecting a thousand - dollar bill tablet . And it was 500 dollar bill , which was , you know , somewhat of an impulse bargain . And it sold , I do n’t know , 10 million in that first quarter . I think it was a lot .
JC : But it was a lot . It was more than they were expecting .
MS : Yeah , manner more . I call up Apple kind of put the Pteridium aquilinum on the ontogenesis because like , all right , well , mass like it like this , so let ’s just refine it rather than germinate it . Then by the time , I think it took five generation for them to really change . Honestly , it ’s still kind of the same because it really changed that much . If you take the ninth - gen iPad versus the first - gen iPad , they ’re pretty similar .
JC : Yeah , there ’s just been mainframe and display update but –
MS : Some svelte stuff here . The iPad concept is fundamentally the same thing . With the AR headset , I do n’t get laid , it seems to be really strong when the iPhone arrived in 07 , even the iPad in 2010 , there were expectations but not like this . No one was looking for the iPhone to change everything .
JC : Yeah , it was not – Apple was not a $ 2 trillion companionship .
MS : What are you go to do ? Right .
JC : Yeah . After several product that have become the world standard for their thing , you ’ve got your iPhone , you ’ve got your iPad , you ’ve have your AirPods , you ’ve got your Apple Watch . In every case , they are far and aside the leaders in their class . you’re able to indicate about whether they ’re the best , but they are far and off the most democratic , the standard bearers , et cetera . Everyone ’s looking for this to be the next matter Apple does like that . I frankly believe it will be , perchance not to the degree – the hype is going to get out of control . Especially if they give us some teasing and hints and do n’t give us a release date and price , they just say it ’s coming after this yr . We ’re going to get all form of dotty imaginings about what it ’s up to of that could never perhaps last up to .
MS : Yeah . Because it ’s Apple , this is the kind of thing that ’ll be on the local news . Like , oh , when Apple came out with a headset today , and it ’s gon na like the reports will be like one-half baked and they wo n’t actually , you know , get it proper what it does , you know . And there ’s gon na be a lot of misinformation out there . It ’s gon na be expensive . No matter how you slice up it , it ’s gon na be at least a thousand dollars . At least . It ’s got ta be . Got ta be . It ’s you roll in the hay , people are gon na say , well , what do I require that for ? Now , it ’s just it ’s gon na be hard to figure out how this category reaches the level of even – like bury the iPhone , but even like AirPods or Apple Watch , which is , you know , braggart , but not tremendously gravid like the iPhone is . It ’s a farseeing after part that they are looking at
JC : Yes , they ’re take care at this is a farsighted - view affair . I do n’t get it on that it ever needs to drop below $ 1,000 . I think it can be like the MacBook for them where they have a very salubrious business merchandising million a year at that monetary value . They just have to justify that damage .
MS : Especially if it ’s the kind of equipment you corrupt once and maybe five days later , you buy another one . If it ’s not something you have , like an iPhone , people buy , and that ’s a thousand dollars . And hoi polloi buy that every class , every two years .
JC : But it ’s that utile . To people , that is their digital life line . The amount that somebody expend an iPhone , they ’re unforced to justify spending that kind of money every year or two . And as long as they can reach that affair , as long as they can get that affair where it ’s like , yeah , do hoi polloi use this every undivided day and love it , then they ’re going to be okay .
MS : Well , if it make the stage where it ’s something that you put on , like an Apple Watch , in the morning and go about your day , and perhaps there ’s ethical drug glass built into it or whatever it is that has to be done to make it small and more fashionable over the next five years or eight old age . Sure , I mean I suppose that ’s something that people – oh look when there ’s a new style .. the AR or whatever it ’s called , Reality One Edition and now it ’s in orangeness and now it ’s made of this and now it ’s made of that . Sure , I can see that . I mean , masses who wear monocle have several different dyad and they ’re not cheap . They ’re a few hundred dollars , easy .
JC : Speaking of prescription glasses , one of the things this is said to have is snap - in magnetic prescription lenses if you need them . That intend they ’re usage and that mean they ’re go to be expensive and it ’s going to be unintelligent .
MS : That ’s another $ 500 .
JC : It ’s not going to be that in this first edition or even the second or third one . It ’s going to take time to get there . But it can be a thing that the people who buy it , love it , ca n’t bar talking about it , use it every day . Even if it ’s not something you put on to tire every day , if I put it on several times a Clarence Shepard Day Jr. and use it for a little act , and then take it off and I love my experience … there ’s absolutely people who are to the full going to spend the money and get that .
The first one is probably not going to be the variety of thing that you ’re meant to tire out all day or walk around with really , out of doors of your star sign or whatever .
RL : There ’s always that one person who will do it .
MS : Yeah . I have in mind , you see masses on subways wear thin like , you sleep together , Oculus and playing game .
RL : Yeah . since I live in San Francisco , you know somebody ’s already planning on figuring out how to take the air through downtown with it on .
Since we were peach about expectations , we had eminent expectations for the Mac Pro and we were depend forward –
MS : How long is this podcast , Romanic ?
RL : We had high hopes for the Mac Pro and then Mark Gurman over at Bloomberg sort of said , yeah . Those gamey hop you had ? Sorry . It ’s not going to happen the way we ’re hoping it was go to happen .
fundamentally , what it sounds like is , first , we ’re not going to get the processor that we thoughtwe were exit to get , which I think we were expecting . I imagine we all were bracing for that in the first property .
JC : Yeah . The rumors originally were that there was expire to be an extreme version , that was essentially like doubly what the Ultra is . So M1 Extreme would be three-fold as many cores of everything and all that other clobber . And we ’re not going to get that . It ’ll just have the Ultra . I guess it ’d be an M2 Ultra . It ’d be uncanny if they did it with an M1 Ultra at this point , but yeah .
MS : Yeah , it ’s got to be an M2 . I signify , it ’s got to be at least a piddling better than the Mac Studio .
JC : Yeah , there ’s no M1 Ultra out , but the idea would be this would be an M2 . There ’s no M2 Pro or Max or Ultras yet , but it would debut in this product .
MS : Yeah , and those are rumored to be come , and the , MacBook Pro is incur an update that would be an M2 Pro Max . The Mac mini is due for an update that would be an M2 , presumptively a Pro . So yeah , they ’re coming in the first one-half or whatever of this year .
JC : presumptively , when the Macs and Ultras get released , the Mac Studios will get an update . That ’s just that . It ’s just the Macs and Ultra chips , the M2 edition .
Yeah , so it ’s basically going to just be in the same enclosure the current Mac Pro is , except it ’s going to have the M2 Ultra . But it will still have some PCIe slots for thing like computer graphic and networking circuit board and other stuff you might need .
MS : Yeah . essentially , everything but RAM , according to the paper .
JC : Yeah . It ’s skillful that you ’re plump to be able to update the storage . That was one that I was n’t sure they were going to be able to do . We babble about it last workweek , I think , but there ’s no way that they can – I really do n’t guess they could have ever really made the tup upgradeable and keep , all the benefits of their whole organization - on - fleck architecture .
MS : That was the big question we had . Gurman ’s last report did say that memory would be user upgradable . I was like , well , how is that going to happen when it ’s unified memory and it ’s a completely different architecture and it ’s on the chip ? How are they go to make that work ?
JC : Yeah , it ’s on a parcel . From an expandability standpoint , the modish hearsay is better than I was fearing . I was fearing you were n’t going to get much of anything . The approximation that you may slap in a graphics card to do some really high - end machine - learn stuff .
MS : So here ’s a question for you as a PC person who have a go at it this clobber . So the M2 Ultra has a 100 and whatever meat GPU . If you put a graphics card in , does it add to it ? How does that work ?
JC : I cogitate it would operate exactly the same way that when you plug in – they already have this . you could plug , not on Apple Silicon , but in the Intel Macs , you had your integrate nontextual matter and you could plug in with Thunderbolt , you could plug in an external computer graphic card in an external natural enclosure , and then it just uses that .
MS : So it shut out off the GPU share of the actual chip .
JC : Yeah , it does n’t utilise that for anything , maybe telecasting encoding or something , but the actual lottery of the screen all comes from the graphics card and you’re able to change that off , but it ’s only ever doing one or the other . I think that ’s going to be probably the way it work with the exception of , like , you’re able to do graphics work on the graphics wit you ’re doing , you have in , but maybe you have to do some compute study and that could be done on the intimate , if they ’re all different task or something . It ’s potential to do stuff like that . They ’ve done that in the personal computer space where you could put in multiple GPUs in the same computer . I think what it ’s intended to be is for that market , it ’s going to be for people who have to do really gamy - closing CAD or other stuff like that where they need a GPU with like an insane amount of RAM . They need a GPU that has a shaft of light - tracing acceleration ironware , much faster RAM , and its own money box of RAM and stuff . There are people who mould in broadcasting , they have limited GPUs that plug in to a whole crew of monitors or connect to TV equipment and stuff like that . It ’s for people who want to do that form of material that you ’d stick that in there . If all you ’re doing is video recording editing and stuff and nonsense , you would just use their incorporate GPU because you do n’t need to render super - firm 3D graphics for that . You require telecasting encoding . It ’s all about the telecasting encoders at that power point . The M2 Ultra is believably go to have , like , what is it , three or how many does the M1 Ultra have ? Three video encoders or something , like something crazy , you bonk , and it ’s probably just proceed to be like that but well .
RL : Yeah , so we ’re not extend to get a novel tower design , which means if you invested $ 600 in the wheel or is it $ 400 ?
MS : It ’s $ 700 .
JC : Was n’t it ?
MS : Six or seven , yeah .
JC : Yeah , I mean it was $ 150 a wheel basically or something .
RL : That ’s what I think .
JC : Something bonkers .
MS : They ’re $ 699 .
JC : Good lord . Okay .
RL : So if you invested in those wheels , they ’ll likely still be good for this new Mac Pro . Although they ’ll belike come out with new steering wheel that are twice the toll and have thread maker or something like that .
JC : Those little spike like from fifty machine and material . That ’s what I want .
RL : So it ’s not going to get a unexampled pattern , which I was a picayune disappointed about that . I stand for the tower design does work . I was just kind of hoping for something new .
MS : Yeah , especially since the Mac Pro is the kind of matter that lasts for , I intend they keep that around for three , four , five , six years . They do n’t change that every yr like the iMac orsomething . Again , it ’s not something that we would buy no matter what it is . But it seems a trivial disappointing .
With the launch of the Mac Studio last year . I write about this today , like , what ’s the pointedness of the Mac Pro ? Like , okay , as Jason was saying , you come the internal graphics scorecard .
JC : Extra networking cards , whatever PCIe thing you necessitate .
MS : Apple ’s been advertize Thunderbolt incessantly . It calls the Mac Studio modular because it has a bunch of Thunderbolt ports . So , like it just … it seemed like the Mac Pro is not really the ultimate pro auto anymore .
JC : Yeah , without a different CPU , what ’s the point ? And the point , I guess the prissy affair is the point is expandability . With the exception of RAM , it ’s still the expandable one . It ’s still the one that permit you have custom audio interfaces that need PCI card expansion slot and hooey like that . I guess that ’s the point . But really , with the foundation of the Mac Studio , and I think we say this back when was introduced . , when they introduced the Mac Studio , we thought , well , who postulate a Mac Pro ? Half the customers in the Mac Pro would be much happier with this .
MS : It ’s smaller , it ’s cheaper .
JC : It ’s vastly tatty , it ’s small . And I cerebrate that ’s still true and I think Apple ’s well-chosen to have that . I think they ’re happy to say like , no , grease one’s palms a Mac Studio .
RL : What I was kind of hoping for with the Mac Pro is that Apple would just go all out .
MS : Yeah , I think we all were hoping that because now , all justly , so here ’s the first Mac Pro that we are in billing of all of it , and here ’s what we can do . Instead , they ’re like , all right on , well , here ’s the same thing with some better clobber .
RL : It may cost a gazillion dollar , but it would just be fun to have in the lineup .
MS : I do n’t care if it starts at $ 12,000 . I ’m not buying it anyway .
JC : The same case is the part that ’s kind of dissatisfactory to me because you by all odds , with it , clearly if you await at a Mac Studio , with an M2 Ultra , they do n’t need the kind of cool down and power supply stuff that ’s in its current one . It ’s decent for people who bribe the rack mount version , I think , to have something that match in their 2U rack again . I do n’t know why they involve so much space . It ’s gracious to have the circuit card , I guess , and it ’s dainty that it still run with the wheels .
MS : It ’s like when the M1 Mac miniskirt fall out . When you did the teardown , it ’s like , well , there is so much room in here .
JC : They could have done so much more with this . Why did n’t you either shrink this or put more stuff and nonsense in here ?
MS : But it ’s just empty space .
JC : It ’s empty space . They did n’t even put as many ports as they should have on it .
MS : Yeah , we ’ll see . We usurp WWDC . I believe they ’re clearing out that spring event for the AR headset . Like we were talking about perchance there ’s a new 24 - inch iMac , maybe the Mac Pros will go there , maybe the Mac miniskirt , maybe . But if so , that ’s going to be like 10 minutes and then two hours for the AR headset .
JC : Yeah . I signify , some of the hearsay now say that the Mac stuff and nonsense that we were supposed to get at the end of last year but did n’t , which is the new MacBook Pros and maybe Mac minis . Basically , the M2 poppycock that would be the Pro or Mac ’s level M2 hooey .
MS : Which is just processor specs .
JC : Just processor specs essentially . possibly a design change on the Mac Mini , who be intimate ? The late rumors are kind of like , well , maybe that happens in a springtime event , like you read , for 10 second , and then it ’s the headset . Maybe it ’s just one of those direct - to - web release they do , which they ’ve done in the spring before as well .
MS : Yeah . They do that .
JC : Yeah . And if it ’s not a total redesign … the MacBooks just had a total redesign of going all the way down to the Air . So they do n’t really need to do anything else . It ’s sound to be , just a processor bump . It would n’t storm me if that was one of those , yeah , we update the website . And then the whole spring outcome is this mixed world headset . The weird thing is going to be having a big event for this motley realness headset that they ’ve got and then go , you may buy it later this year , and then it ends up shooting in like September or something .
MS : Also , like , you know , there ’s still the COVID stuff , like , do they have a live event ? Do they have people that show up ? And like , they have n’t had a level effect yet . They ’ve done memorialise videos at their own events .
JC : The September , last September effect , they had hoi polloi there in the Steve Jobs Theater , but they just observe the telecasting .
MS : They were n’t there . Like , they did n’t do a whole thing . They ’re gon na have to for this , I would think .
JC : If they fill the theater , then I find like they ’re well-to-do having a alive event .
MS : I still remember when the iPhone came out when Steve Jobs did the slide - to - unlock thing .
JC : Yeah .
MS : The whole audience locomote bonkers . He in reality locked the phone and did it again because the great unwashed were like , wow .
JC : That ’s a queer video to go back and watch , not just because the video quality is so poor . We ’re used to everything being at least HD widescreen out but how tiny the iPhone was . And kind of janky look , like very rounded and had that big chin of like on the back , that big Browning automatic rifle on the back .
MS : The sinister bar for the antenna stuff and nonsense , yeah .
JC : It ’s cool .
RL : The bezel are elephantine .
MS : Yeah , it was , like , despite the caliber like , I can go back and observe that like I can watch that 60 minutes long . It ’s just super and Steve Jobs was completely in his element . Oh , yeah awesome to catch that whole thing .
RL : That was what , 16 years ago?MS : Yep , 16 years ago a couple of days ago .
JC : Ca n’t be , I have not aged 16 year .
RL : 16 years ago . That does it for this episode of the Macworld Podcast , sequence 823 . Thanks to Jason Cross .
JC : give thanks you .
RL : Thanks to Michael Simon .
MS : Thank you , sir .
Join us in the next episode of the Macworld Podcast as we mouth about the latest in the public of Apple . See you next time .
